Way to go Combat! Good job! (not really)

[leoingle]

Congrats on being the last to come out with a coach pitch bat. They have yet to make one but I am saying last because they are THE LAST! It became official now that Easton has the BCNCP1 out, which i actually saw in action this weekend and liked. For Combat to be a company that has such a presence in LL with the B1s and B2s, and changed the whole outlook on teeball bats when they come out with the B1 teeball bat, you would think they could at least get a good coach pitch bat out in a decent amount of time. Now you got this place out in Atlanta selling 25, 26 and 27in Senior League B1s that Combat made exclusive for them for 200 bucks. (yes, they are calling them SL bats) Knowing good and well the only kids swinging 25, 26, and 27in bats are kids at the CP age range. every other CP bat retails in the range from 70-150. I will buy my son pretty much anything, but i refuse to buy this at this price hike of 33% over the next cheapest big barrel bat in the same length. Now i have heard two stories: 1-this place had Combat special make them for them if they got so many. 2-Combat is going to start making these and they only have exclusive rights on them till January. If Combat puts these out for this price, i will be very disappointed. If anybody knows me from another board, you know that i am a huge Combat advocate. But I am not scared to knock my own when i find fault with them. And in this case I surely do.

[dmac]

Where can I get a 27 inch Combat Big Barrel? I would love one for our travel team for next year.

[dmac]

Nevermind, I found them on Ebay. FWIW, I ordered a B2 from that guy last year for 205 and a B1 for 160 and that was the 28/18 LL B1 which he was the only person carrying them at the time. You might be able to get a better price.

[tom2p]

Maybe it is just me - but I could/would not be able to justify spending that type of money for a coach-pitch bat.
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I know many on this board are probably growing tired of reading this ...... but ....
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the best hitter I have ever seen in youth baseball used the least expensive bat .....a $40 LS 30-22 bat .....
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his OBP was consistently around .700 - .800 .... and he had power ..... as a 11 yr old in a home run derby .... 5 swings ..... he hit 4 out and the 5th hit the fence ...... (205 ft fence ) ......
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he did this with a $40 bat ....
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it is not (about) the bat - it is the SWING !
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[Mid-Ohio Blaze]

high quality bats improve the mishits and add a substantial amount of performance on those mishits. All bats hit well on the screws.

[leoingle]

Maybe it is just me - but I could/would not be able to justify spending that type of money for a coach-pitch bat.
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I know many on this board are probably growing tired of reading this ...... but ....
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the best hitter I have ever seen in youth baseball used the least expensive bat .....a $40 LS 30-22 bat .....
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his OBP was consistently around .700 - .800 .... and he had power ..... as a 11 yr old in a home run derby .... 5 swings ..... he hit 4 out and the 5th hit the fence ...... (205 ft fence ) ......
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he did this with a $40 bat ....
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it is not (about) the bat - it is the SWING !
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I agree with you to a certain extent. the majority of it is a swing. but if that kid would be using a real bat, imagine what he woulda done.

i wont buy it for the simple fact that every other bat that size is way cheaper than it. if they were all that price, then i would. but they arent. That B1 is not going to hit 50 bucks better than the new Easton CP or LS Triton CP bat, i promise you that. It simply comes down to a company that is trying to gouge ppl because they are the only ones with them. and i told them exactly why i wont be buying one.

[dmac]

Are the big barrel coach pitch bats the same quality as a normal big barrel?

[leoingle]

dunno dmac, they just came out. but i would think so.

[dmac]

I'm not talking about Combat's in particular but just in general are the coach pitch bats the same quality as big barrels? I wouldn't think they are, but that is just my guess.

[leoingle]

of course the sweetspot is smaller, but i have seen a few impressive CP bats. They have come along way despite very few being out. As far as how they compare to the SL bats, not sure. kinda hard to compare them when such diff size boys are swingin them.

[leoingle]

Nevermind, I found them on Ebay. FWIW, I ordered a B2 from that guy last year for 205 and a B1 for 160 and that was the 28/18 LL B1 which he was the only person carrying them at the time. You might be able to get a better price.

no, i called out there and tried to reason with them and show common sense that they are trying to sell a bat used for CP at a SL price. but he just acted like he was doing the customer a favor. and told me that i'm getting free shipping. :rolleyes: i get free shipping pretty much everywhere i get bats.

and the place that i feel is screwing ppl on these is combatsonline.com.

which i know he is on here and kinda surprised the hasnt posted on this thread. which i found it funny that he called out justbats.com and said they are screwing ppl on a price of a certain bat, yet they are doing the same thing with these.

[dmac]

There are a ton of 7u and 8u travel teams that are going to buy the 26/16 and 27/17 Combat big barrels. I'm not sure why you are getting so worked up over this?

[2999hits]

What the heck is a coach pitch bat? Are you talking about a bat made specifically for a kid hitting off an adult? Do the adults throw the ball differently from a kid? How does the bat know the difference?

If a kid is still at a level of baseball where he's hitting off the coach then I wouldn't (and didn't) spend a dime more than it cost to get a light bat (-12 or-13) in the proper lengh. I think for all it matters it can be made out of fence post if the weight/length are correct.

If a coach pitch kid hits it hard enough to compress the bat he probably shouldn't be playing coach pitch.

[Hookem74]

coach pitch is the next age group right above T-ball. I don't think you have a choice as far as moving up.
Yes the coach pitches but in some leagues they actually have a pitching machine instead.

lighter is not always better, if the kid can swing it without effecting his mechanics than more power to him!

[Mid-Ohio Blaze]

if he can swing it without affecting his mechanics then it is a light bat for him. The fact that he hits to right center and right would indicate a late swing. It could be too heavy, but it is tough to tell without seeing him.

[leoingle]

There are a ton of 7u and 8u travel teams that are going to buy the 26/16 and 27/17 Combat big barrels. I'm not sure why you are getting so worked up over this?

did you read any of my OP? Its just the principle. All coach pitch bats go between 70-150, then you got them selling these for 200. Just really crappy of them IMO. But anybody who does, they deserve to waste their money, cuz i am sure it is a good bat, but i would put money on it that it is no better than the Easton BCNCP1. I have seen alot of those bats in action over the last month and they are right up there with the CP91.

What the heck is a coach pitch bat? Are you talking about a bat made specifically for a kid hitting off an adult? Do the adults throw the ball differently from a kid? How does the bat know the difference?

If a kid is still at a level of baseball where he's hitting off the coach then I wouldn't (and didn't) spend a dime more than it cost to get a light bat (-12 or-13) in the proper lengh. I think for all it matters it can be made out of fence post if the weight/length are correct.

If a coach pitch kid hits it hard enough to compress the bat he probably shouldn't be playing coach pitch.

wow, you are lost and clueless. coach pitch is exactly what it says..... coach pitch. i am guessing you come from an area that does machine pitch for 7 and 8, that can be my only assumption. and if you think a bat can be made out of a fence post as long as it is the right legnth and weight, you got alot to learn. and by your logics, just cuz a kid hits hard, they should play up? does fielding not have anything to do with it anymore? LMK

if he can swing it without affecting his mechanics then it is a light bat for him. The fact that he hits to right center and right would indicate a late swing. It could be too heavy, but it is tough to tell without seeing him.

does not necessarily mean a late swing. for a couple of months, my son was having this problem, and i was thinkin it was because late swinging. but after slow-mo video, i realized his mechanics was just not right, he wasnt fully snapping his wrist and getting the head of the bat out in front of his hand at point of contact. But i broke that with one simple drill. took a tee and positioned it as an inside pitch where the ideal spot would be to hit it and had him work on turning on it and going down the 3rd base line. i'd say after about 4 outings of that drill, he was totally cured and only goes oppo when it is an outside pitch now.

[tom2p]

My kid used cheap Worth Copperhead bats ($30 ?) when he was in T ball .... coach pitch .... 6-7 yrs old.
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I have a great interest in bats or (obviously) would not be on this site - but do not see the focus on expensive high-end bats for kids at these early levels.
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The correct size (length/weight) is very important - but the expensive high-tech whizz-bang bats - just don't see it at the early levels ......
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[dden]

I have to agree with 2999 & Tom2p...any bat, that a kid can swing properly, is fine for coach pitch. After all, the coaches are pitching batter-friendly pitches...lollipops that are meant to be hit as far as possible. I don't think there is any kid in coach pitch that can swing a composite bat hard enough to compress the carbon fiber and reap the benefits of those bats. ..if he can, he should not be in coach pitch. If your 7/8 year old kid can swing a -10 bat, there are plenty of inexpensive bats available, and he will hit the ball further with an alloy barrel than with a composite. I have coached kids for many years and it seems that, until the pitches are coming at 50+mph, AND the kid has a very good swing, the ball is hit harder, and travels further, off an alloy barrel.

[dmac]

I disagree about the composites for 7/8 year olds. Our 7/8's hit the best with the Combats and Miken Freak. We have some alloy Stealths and a Plasma Gold, no comparison to the composites. Perfect example is last season we had a big 8 year old that had a Typhoon, coach put a CF3 in his hands and he hit about 10 balls out.

[dden]

The smallest CF3 is a 29/18...if your 8 year old was swinging a bat that size he must be pretty big and is certainly not the average 8 year old. My point was that, to realize the full potential of a composite bat, you have to be powerful enough to make the carbon fiber in the bat compress when it hits the ball...and that is not going to happen with a ball tossed by a coach at 30mph...no matter how strong the kid is.

[dmac]

He wasn't my kid just a kid on our team and yes he is a big kid. We play machine pitch anywhere from 35-42 mph. That particular league was 35 mph from 42 feet and he could definitely get the benefits from the composite bat.

[2999hits]

wow, you are lost and clueless. coach pitch is exactly what it says..... coach pitch. i am guessing you come from an area that does machine pitch for 7 and 8, that can be my only assumption. and if you think a bat can be made out of a fence post as long as it is the right legnth and weight, you got alot to learn. and by your logics, just cuz a kid hits hard, they should play up? does fielding not have anything to do with it anymore? LMK

Thanks for the definition of coach pitch [sarcasm]. Around here our better kids move from T-ball to kid pitch, never been a fan of coach pitch or more accurately coach throw it on a plane that will connect with kids swing. The fence post comment was a bit of an exageration but with the speed of the balls coming in and the bat speed of the kids no bat material is going to make a difference. That grounder will roll through the legs of 5 fielders no matter what bat the 7 year old prodigy is using.

It's not that I don't believe in bat technology and will fully agree that it's beneficial to use the high tech bats once a kid can benefit from it. That age differs for each kid obviously but if that kid is still playing kid pitch your delusional if you think it matters if he has a $240 composite or a $40 alloy. As for big barrels and kids under 11, everyone can have their opinions but I was always happy to see them in the hands of the other team when we played tournaments because for every kid that could get them around on good pitching their were 6 that couldn't.

[Union-LL-AA-dad]

Well, I'll be the guinea pig. Over the weekend, I added a Demarini Vendetta 28/16 (hybrid) and an Easton Synergy IMX Power Hitter 28/18 (composite) to my son's arsenal. Got great deals on both ($85 for Vendetta, $99 for Synergy). We also have a cheap 7050 alum Louisville 28/16 that we use in cages. My son's level (8U Williamsport sanctioned LL) does pitching machine (35-45 mph) from 46 feet to start the season, then transitions to 1 inning kid pitch 1/3-rd into the season, then 2 innings kid pitch 2/3-rds into the season. I'll report back periodically if the hybrid and the composite performs any better then the cheap alloy (granted the comp is 2 oz heavier). And his LL uses real leather baseballs, not the spongy reduced-injury kind. I'm giddy that we got a very good hybrid and very good composite w/o breaking the bank!!

[wesparker]

I'm thinking a composite bat designed for coach-pitch could have a big advantage for hitting the ball faster and farther in that age group.

Whether or not it's worth the extra money at this age is an individual question. You drive a $35K S.U.V. I drive a $15K Hyundai. Whatever. If I had a coach-pitch player, and some extra money, why wouldn't I buy a $150 composite? Compared to what even poor people buy for their kids these days, $150 is chump change.

It's no different in baseball than it is in slowpitch softball. Composite bats are easily designed and built to suit specific game conditions such as the typical pitch speed, typical swing speed, and ball COR and compression.

A coach-pitch composite is tuned to flex like crazy in coach-pitch conditions. This design flexibility is a major plus for composite bats as compared to metal bats.

Union-dad, I'll be very surprised if the coach-pitch composite doesn't out-crush an alloy bat by a wide margin.

[Union-LL-AA-dad]

Just to clarify, my son's league/level is Williamsport sanctioned, meaning the bats he'll be using is 2-1/4" barrel diameter. They are not coach-pitch bats. They are regular LL bats (with 1.15 BPF rating).

The thread originator (leoingle) is in a coach-pitch league/level.

[2999hits]

I'm thinking a composite bat designed for coach-pitch could have a big advantage for hitting the ball faster and farther in that age group.

How? Are you saying the walls would be made to flex at a lower impact? Although I'm not familiar with coach pitch bats don't they need to meet the same standards as any other youth bat (bpf 1.15)?

If you made such a "springy" bat for lower speeds wouldn't it be like a trampoline for higher swing/pitch speeds?

I believe in and my sons have many high end bats. That being said it is a stretch to say any of them "far out perform" other well made but far cheaper bats. I put them in their hands because I can, they have a larger sweet spot and the extra 10 ft they may get can be a home run instead of a warning track shot. Fact is I've seen my kids hit the ball just as well with a wood bat as any of his composites if he hits it on the button. Problem is that button is much harder to find on a wood bat.

Before I'd spend $200 on a bat for a 7-8 year old I'd spend that money on hitting lessons. If you can do both then go for it.

[tom2p]

Best money I spent (when kids were that age) was $100 for an Easton pop up net.
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Both kids hit early and often into the net .... T and soft toss.
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I'm big on many bats - as much as a good/great bat. When kids were little, they had and progressed to many bats .... including 25-13, 25-14, 26-14, 26-15, 27-14, etc .....
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Most of the bats at this level were cheap ($30 or so) Worth Copperhead bats - a couple purchased at Target, couple purchased at flea markets, one on ebay .....
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[tom2p]

If your kid plays in a coach pitch league, better to have coach pitch faster - rather than slower.
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Obviously, you don't want coach blowing ball past kid - but especially during latter part of season, coach pitch should be preparing kid for next level ..... transition to kid pitch.
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Generally, the better coaches at that level will pitch faster.
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My little one played in 8 yr old league last season - league began with coach pitch and then transitioned to kid pitch. A few of the coaches were lobbing the ball - and many/most of the kids on those teams did not hit kid pitching well - and (most) will not be well prepared for batting at next level.
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The bottom line in baseball is you have to be able to hit well to enjoy baseball. And as any parent knows that has kid in LL or advanced levels - it can be very tough to hit fast pitching. The inability to hit fast pitching - more than any one thing - will stop a kid from continuing with baseball. Kids swinging big heavy bats at early levels .... with bad form, etc. ... will be fighting an uphill battle - and one that can be very difficult to overcome.
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So basically ... what I am attempting to communicate .... the length of hit is ok ... but ensure the focus is on preparing kid to hit fast pitching ... good form/mechanics ... good bat speed ... etc.
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[tom2p]

Union - appears you did well. Best to get the high-end bats at clearance prices if/when you can.
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28-16 good bat size for many 7-8-9 yr olds ....(especially 8 yr old) ..... -13 drop often too much of a drop ... and -10 often too heavy .... so the -12 (or -11) can be ideal - especially a good starting point.
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You can begin early season with 28-16 ..... and in drills, start with the 28-16 and then begin to introduce some reps with 28-18 .... and finish with the 28-16. Eventually increase reps with the 28-18 - and maybe/hopefully kid will be using 28/18 by end of season.
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[D_wats]

The bottom line in baseball is you have to be able to hit well to enjoy baseball. And as any parent knows that has kid in LL or advanced levels - it can be very tough to hit fast pitching. The inability to hit fast pitching - more than any one thing - will stop a kid from continuing with baseball. Kids swinging big heavy bats at early levels .... with bad form, etc. ... will be fighting an uphill battle - and one that can be very difficult to overcome.

So basically ... what I am attempting to communicate .... the length of hit is ok ... but ensure the focus is on preparing kid to hit fast pitching ... good form/mechanics ... good bat speed ... etc.


I very much agree.

We don't do many drills, just get in the cage and hit, and when we do I place the L-screen a few feet closer and I bring it. Now if Keegs does struggle it's against the weaker pitchers. But when facing a kid that throws heat the K's don't happen very often.

Problem is he's reaching an age where dad can't hang with the pitch speeds he'll see, unless I put the screen say.....about two ft in front of home plate. LOL

[cps]

Problem is he's reaching an age where dad can't hang with the pitch speeds he'll see, unless I put the screen say.....about two ft in front of home plate. LOL

I know what you mean about that….My son recently joined a baseball academy that has nice pitching machines set up at 60 feet for more realistic BP.

[wesparker]

"How? Are you saying the walls would be made to flex at a lower impact? Although I'm not familiar with coach pitch bats don't they need to meet the same standards as any other youth bat (bpf 1.15)?"

2999hits,
My bad, I didn't realize Union-Dad was in a Williamsport-sanctioned LL program requiring 1.15 BPF small-barrel bats, which don't have a "coach pitch" category, as far as I know.

The bats advertised as "coach pitch" are big barrel bats that don't have any kind of rating (BPF or whatnot). No limits on performance. When they're made out of composite, they ARE designed specifically to flex like crazy when used in the relatively slow pitch and swing speeds of coach-pitch baseball. That's a main advantage of composites--tuning different models of bats for a specific situation.

[tom2p]

Problem is he's reaching an age where dad can't hang with the pitch speeds he'll see, unless I put the screen say.....about two ft in front of home plate. LOL
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Ditto !
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I had trouble pitching fast enough for kids in LL - 11 and 12 yr olds. I was forced to move the cage up ... and up ! ..

[dden]

Actually, the Combat bats you are referring to were not even made for coach pitch. They were made for a youger kids' travel ball league in Georgia (which is why they are big barrel bats). They (27/17, 26/16, 25/15) are the exact same bat as the regular senior league ("big barrel") bats, just in a smaller size...same composite, same construction, same thickness. They don't flex any more than the larger -10 B1s, in fact, they flex less because the barrel is shorter on the smaller bats. The bats in question are not even legal for use in Little League because they are not 2 1/4" diameter bats....

Just as wesparker said in his above post...I guess I should have read the entire thread before posting.