Multiple Bats

[SHenderson]

Hey all,

I coach and my son, who just turned 10 plays on our area's 10U Select Travel team. He uses a Combat 29/17. I am playing around with adding a much heavier bat to his bag to be used when he faces slower pitchers. He is pretty small for his age but has spectacular fundamentals and has no problems swinging a 30/21-22 in the batting cage. I have a tendency to go a little overboard with him, so I was wondering if any of you do anything similiar for boys in this age range? I hope fall ball is going well for everyone.

Thanks

[cps]

The 4 to 5 ounces plus an inch in length is quite a difference. My philosophy is to keep the bat the same and learn to stay back on slower pitchers. This will also be beneficial when facing a good change-up. Perhaps you could move your son up in the box for the real slow pitchers. And maybe your son is ready to move up from the 29/17 to a slightly larger bat.

[Hookem74]

I agree,changing bat size & weight throws off timing,etc. Stick with one bat. Believe it or not 1 ounce is a big difference. The whole faster pitcher, batter needs a lighter bat is a myth, everything is based on timing.

[D_wats]

I don't know, my 10U son swung a 30" -9 'zilla (actual weight 24 oz), a 31" -10 Combat, a 30" -5 EXO, and towards the end of the year a 31" -8 H2 we found on sale. Sometimes he used a combination of these bats in one game, didn't see any ill effects.

I'm a big believer in swing a heavy bat as long as the mechanics are good, and against some of the slower pitchers we faced he used his -5 EXO. But when facing someone with heat and a good change-up/curve the Combat came out, except when he wanted to impress, then it was the '07 'zilla. To bad it's on its last leg, I'll miss that black bat. :(

[tom2p]

heavier - yes ..... but much heavier ? might not be a good idea ....
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better to step up in bat size (length/weight) in small increments .... and much better to (first) do this in practice .... T, soft toss, live BP in cage, etc ......
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if kid is on 10 travel team, this might be a good time to begin to move up in bat size from a 29-17 ...... 29-18 .... 29-19 .... 30-17 ... 30-18 .... or similar ....
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I agree with D wats - the heavier the better .... IF and PROVIDED kid can generate good bat speed *with* good mechanics .....

sometimes it can take time to be move up in bat size (with success) ..... check out some of my previous posts that mention 'up and down the ladder' ....
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Basically, 'up and down the ladder' is the use of increasingly heavier (and/or longer) bats - and then back down to the lighter bats - while performing batting drills. I generally do this on the T, and then soft toss - and if we have more time I will repeat in the cage BP. Start with a lighter or the current bat - and then step up to a heavier bat (and/or larger bat) - and then the next heavier bat (in steps) - and then step back down to the normal bat (in steps).
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This is a great drill to prepare a kid to (eventually) step up to a bigger (longer and/or heavier bat). This is an ideal drill to build the swing ... build the hands/wrists/arms, shoulders/torso ... ear lobes (LOL) ... etc. This drill was very useful when my oldest kid moved up to a DeMarini F2 (double wall).
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Example of drill below. I used this drill (or similar) with my little guy this past season. He was 8 yrs old - swinging a 28-16 (most times).
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Start on the T, then soft toss, and then BP in cage. Most times I/we will only use two (or three) different bats in the cage - but it can vary.
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Batting T - 10 swings with 28-15 - 10 swings with 28-16 - 10 swings with 28-18 - 10 swings with 28-20 - 10 swings with 28-18 - 10 swings with 28-16.
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Soft Toss - 10 swings with 28-15 - 10 swings with 28-16 - 10 swings with 28-18 - 10 swings with 28-20 - 10 swings with 28-18 - 10 swings with 28-16.
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BP in cage - 10 swings with 28-16 - 10 swings with 28-18 - 10 swings with 28-16.
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Warning - For some kids, this may be too many swings and can really tax their arms - especially if kid is small/young and also if they are performing this drill solo (another kid added to the mix can aid recovery). And watch out for blisters ! If just one kid - or kid not accustomed to alot of BP - can step it down to 5 to 7 swings - and then can progress to 10 (or even more).
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Good Luck !
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[tom2p]

yes - fall ball is going well ..... football .......:mad:
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[D_wats]

I agree with D wats - the heavier the better .... IF and PROVIDED kid can generate good bat speed *with* good mechanics .....

Actually per my first post Keeg's '07 'zilla (24 oz) was the bat he used as an 8 yr old. He swung the bat well, did have a lot of K's because he had to start the swing so far back, but looked good, and when he made contact it was a shot.

When I first started looking for a bat post Tball I'm glad the first site I ran into was the Anderson one. They had a "mission statement" up at the time that went into what do you want for your child, to be the rec league all-star, or compete at the HS level. To the point it said lite bat weight=rec league stud, heavy bat=looking to the future.

[tom2p]

To the point it said lite bat weight=rec league stud, heavy bat=looking to the future.
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Agree. Eventually the kid must be able to swing a 'real' bat - if he has any aspirations of playing at an advanced level.
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However, that does not mean the kid has to start with a heavy bat at an early age. Some kids - especially those that are on the low end of the physical/maturity scale - may need to stay with a lightweight bat longer than a kid that has advanced more physically. We had some kids that were tiny/skinny - but both parents had size. You could guess the kid would eventually have size - but it could take a few years (more than other kids) - so no reason to rush things.
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I start small/light - and then progress (gradually and incrementally) to the bigger (larger/ heavier) bats. I do this with an eye toward the future - knowing that the kid will need to be able to swing a -3 bat when playing middle school ball. But I always keep an eye on bat speed - and the kid's ability to hit/meet the ball well (squarely).
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One reason I am a big fan of the DeMarini F2 and F3 double wall bats is I feel kids that use these bats are more positioned toward the future (baseball at a advance/higher) level. These bats swing heavy - more like -8 (-6 ?). Most kids I know that hit well with the F2 or F3 were able to make the transition to the -3 relatively quickly and with success.
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[cps]

I agree with going has heavy as you can and still maintaining good bat speed. I have been slowly moving my son up in weight and length. He is fairly tall for a 12 year old at 5 '6", but is pretty thin at 118 pounds. He used a 31/21 this past season up from a 31/19 last fall.

This fall he has moved to the larger field (90 ft bases / 60 ft pitcher's mound) and he is now using a 31/23 B1 big barrel and a 31/22 DeMarini big barrel. The DeMarini actually feels a little heavier than the 23 oz B1(We have not weighed it to verify the weight). He does not quite have the bat speed with these heavier bats he does with the 21 oz, but the speed is still good. He can hit the -10 a little further, but this may also be due to the fact that the bat is broken in better and is much hotter.

Next year I plan to move him to a -5 so he will be ready for a -3 the year after next when he enters High School.

[glgto]

we carry a -8.5 bt if my 11u faces slower pitchers he uses a -5.
yes he could sit back and wait but he likes to swing the heavier bat now and then.

[SHenderson]

Some great replies guys.......thanks for taking the time....it is what makes this site so great....bunch of Dads/Moms who want the best for their sons/daughters....what a great sport.

[wesparker]

I've seen a lot of dads and coaches mess up the kids by having them try to match the bat to the type of pitching they're facing. Settle on one bat, and use it for all kinds of pitching, and sit back and be patient for a few years while the player learns to adjust PHYSICALLY and MENTALLY to the various speeds of pitching that he'll face.

Golf: The multiple-bat approach is OK for golf--which club should I use here?

Baseball: Two problems (at least) with the multiple-bat approach:

1. It's like training-wheels--it delays the learning process

2. It gets the wrong thing into the player's head-- at the plate, a part of his brain is thinking and wondering about the damn bat in his hands.

Example of correct approach: If he's swinging an end-loaded F-2, etc., just fine against normal pitching, but can't get around against the fastest pitchers----have him choke up on the F-2. The tool stays the same. Just use it a different way.

[Mid-Ohio Blaze]

The techzilla mission statement is used to SELL bats imo. I disagree with that, and I know dwats is around a top quality team, as am I. I think it is silly to put too heavy a bat in a kids hands now, so he can be a stud LATER. All that promotes is bad mechanics due to a player not being able to dominate the bat physically. I advocate using a bat that can be swung quickly, while being as heavy as the player can handle with great success. If your son swings a bat that is 23 oz, is hitting .500 and hits a lot of hr then you got it right. If your lead off hitter is 90 lbs and swings an 18 oz bat, leads the team in hr's and hits .500 then you still have it right. He should not use the 23 oz bat because it does not set him up to succeed. If the players have a great swing, ie mechanics, then when they are 14 or 15 and they transition to a -3, they will be ready. We follow a general guide, but there are exceptions. At 12, most of our players will be -8. Some of those bats will be a little heavier do to length. 13-15 years old they will transition to -5 then -3 depending on their physical stature.

We do however promote using a heavy bat such as wood in the off season to build up strength and promote good contact, but if the players swing gets out of whack due to a heavy bat then we drop the weight. Having multiple bats is useful, but I agree about only using one bat. The boys need to learn to adjust to off speed, and that is difficult if they bat changes all the time. The only time I see using a different bat is if you face some freak of nature pitcher who throws so hard that no one is getting around on it. You then either choke up or grab that old lighter bat to try to make contact. This has never happened so far in my years of travel.

[D_wats]

The techzilla mission statement is used to SELL bats imo. I disagree with that, and I know dwats is around a top quality team, as am I. I think it is silly to put too heavy a bat in a kids hands now, so he can be a stud LATER.

Just to be clear.

Yes I understand they're in the business of selling bats, but I don't believe that means they can't have the players best interest in mind. Do they?, I don't know, just sayn'.

Also, I believe the idea is to swing a heavy bat, not "too heavy" of a bat.

Having done this a couple of years now here's my two cents. Put the bat in the kid's hands and let him swing it. If it's too heavy try another. But don't assume a kid can't just because others can't. Bat size charts and these forums are a good starting point, but one size doesn't fit all, so to speak.

[Union-LL-AA-dad]

This is a fun thread! Over the weekend, I did a little experiment with my 7.5 yr old. I did live BP and soft toss using 3 different bats: 27/14.5, 28/16, and 27/18. We started off doing the up-n-down the ladder drill, but ended up just letting him hit whatever he felt comfortable with. Results were: 27/14.5 was the most consistent. He really felt like he commanded the plate with it and I could tell he could make easy adjustments in his swing depending on the location of the pitch. He could not hit the 28/16 at all and gave up on it. The 27/18 was hit and miss (literally). On solid hits, the ball really took off, but mishits tended to be weak fouls. Based on this one experiment, I'm leaning on using the 27/14.5 as his only gamer (but will re-evaluate often in the off-season). The experiment ended with him consistently driving through the ball using the 27/14.5 (piercing line drives and fly balls to the outfield).

[Mid-Ohio Blaze]

I agree D-Wats, using the charts is a starting point, as each kid is different. If i remember correctly you had a video of your son hitting. If that is him (lefty hitting for the juice) he has a great swing and is doing it right. I wanted to add to the discussion not denounce, so I hope you didnt take my last post wrong.
UNION: That example is my experience also. We choose the bats for our players and let them swing them to prove our choice. For example, well look at a players swing and video it with different bats. We narrow choices down to several combinations and let the kids swing them. 99% of the time, the highest swing speed bat is the bat they choose, this coincides with the weight theory. This also puts a smile on their face as their teamates are impressed with their power and technique. We make it fun and they take ownership of the bat. BUT, we have an elite travel team so parents trust us to set their kids up to succeed and not everyone is so fortunate. Therefore parents need forums like this to get the answers they need.

[tom2p]

Union - sounds good !
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And also similar to our results when my little guy was 7. He hit best with a 27-14 - and then later moved to a 27-15. He hit the ball very well - solid - great contact. There were a few kids that were hitting the ball furthur - using bigger bats (longer/heavier) - but I did not want to get caught up in the 'home run wars'. I concentrated primarily on bat speed and making good contact.
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If you can find a 28-15, that would be a good bat to add to the mix - this season or next - to prepare him to move up (bat size). He can get reps with the 28-15, 28-16, and 28-18 or whatever - and eventually should then be able to swing the 28-15 or 28-16 well (next season).
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Take your time and be patient - and you/he will be rewarded !
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Good luck !
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btw - If you are looking for lighweight 28" bats - lighter than the 28-16 -
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28-15 TPX Dynasty (blue - 2006 model - YB206)
28-15.5 TPX Omaha XS Scandium (red - 2006 model - YB406)
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The 28-15.5 TPX Omaha XS Scandium was one of my oldest kids fav bats. He also liked the 28-16 version - and the 29-16.5 and 29-17 versions. He hit very well with these bats.
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[SHenderson]

Man, this has turned into one awesome thread.....Sounds like you have some wonder resources and have it dialed-in Mid-Ohio Blaze......Unfortunately, our area's baseball program struggles both with resources and players against lacrosse......most of what we do is on our own dollar and it makes it challenging at times.

[travishp]

Excellent thread, and as it's something I'm facing with my 8 1/2 year old right now so I'll put my 2 cents in also. He's been instructed at a Mike Epstein Rotational hitting facility for thelast 2 years and they encourage the lower drop bats as long as mechanics remain solid.
During spring season my son was using a 28 -12 Synergy against kid pitch, and then coach pitch after 4 balls (not a fan of, but another story) and he would continually crush (pulling)
everything down the left field line, to the point where teams actually put a shift on. (kinda of funny at this level). So over the summer decided to move him to a Combat 29 -10 which was perfect for 8-9 kid pitch (& coach) even adding 15-20 ft to his drives.
The dilemma now comes as he's playing fall ball with 10-11yr olds at the Epstein Facility becomes he was deemed good enough, but now is humbled a bit with a few strikeouts and pop-outs. (Anything in his 'zone' he still drives it.) But his instructors want him to stick with the -10 bat and learn to choke up a bit after he 'studies' a pitcher he thinks is fast. They also
encourage wood bats for batting cage drills. (Also saves the Combat)
I think it's also common sense that when it comes to the -13 bats that for a 7-9 yr old
developing good mechanics it's a good thing, but for a 12 year old looking to play high school
ball where a -3 or -5 is required it will be a major adjustment from the -13.
A Latin American instructor who has scouting ties, once pointed out to me that major league teams would rather (and do) take a chance on a 16 year old Latin player who has swung a wood bat all his life then the 18 year old American who has not. (Geo-politic arguments aside).....

[D_wats]

I wanted to add to the discussion not denounce, so I hope you didnt take my last post wrong.

Oh gosh no. Look forward to your post as I'm sure everyone here does.

You mentioned my son, so I'll use him as an example.

First let me say when we started this whole baseball thing I was clueless, had to ask someone what (-whatever) meant. So his first TT season I found the Anderson website, thought what I read made sense, and bought him a 30" bat, had no idea it weighted 24 oz. But as an eight on the pitching machine he did well with it, but then it was just a matter of timing. As a nine I bought him a 31" Anderson to grow into, but he used it right away. This was pitch level and thinks went so-so. He hit 12 balls out but had like 24 K's in about 60 at bats. Got the reputation of K'ing or HR. That bothered me.

So, we did about everything wrong you could do according to the charts, any info, and most post here. The results, in at least 200 at bats as a ten 12 k's. We played with a different TT team and one of the coaches that threw BP said he was bringing it in the range of 60 MPH and it was interesting how long Keegs could wait to commit and still make contact. I still think that goes to the work we did as an 8/9 with the heavier bats, IMO.

He'll swing a -10 31" Combat, a -8 30" CF3, and his 30" 'zilla (24 oz) in the same weekend and hit the ball well with all of them.

FWIW (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcWYUCGBz28)

[Mid-Ohio Blaze]

I think you have to add the hidden factor that your son is very very talented. My son (who is very big and tall, not fat) started out with a 30-19 in coaches pitch and 9u travel. He moved to -12 30-18 for 10u and he really took off with results. This year he swung a 30-20 and continued to hit great and far. Now we have moved to a 30-22 Combat and will move up to a 31-24 next year I imagine. Then transition to -5 then -3. But back to the thread, he will carry a 30-22 combat, a 30-20 combat and a 30-20.5 Omaha. My gut feels that the -8 will see 99% of the action. He usually keeps a lighter bat for the serious flame throwers, but when he faces one of them, he cant bring himself to change bats. He just adjusts his timing and is very successful. He does swing a 31-26 maple wood bat in the cage with an iron mike machine for building up muscle.