Breaking in a tpx composite or exo, or omaha tpx?

[rcgrounder]

Hi

I am in the process of buying for my 16 year old and 14 year old grandsons
either a 2008 exo, tpx omaha 2009, or a 2008 tpx composite. They will all prob be -3 in 32-29. Have looked at the tpx armour also, Now reading here in the forum, i see comments on alloys need no break in, which we have nver been concerned about before, but the composites need various hits, and rotated. We are close to the end of our season period,- midwest, so are these composites useless until next year.? Then what type of break in is needed, live pitching, or machine with regular baseballs, not the hard rubber ones? The only real reason i am considering composite, as our colder spring climate. Is that a factor? Last spring i saw bats pop in 40 degree weather, i told them they should not be using them?
Any suggestions? These boys are good swingers, giood hands, hit well.
Thanks
:)

[dsore1218]

In my opinion, when you are reading this forum you need to be aware that we talk in shades of grey. For example: An alloy bat or a composite bat will be just fine out of the wrapper. Both will hit fine, the bat will not be dead, they will produce hits. Every bat does 'loosen' up and become 'hotter' due to this loosening, which we often refer to as the trampoline effect.

Composites are popular because some feel they can get hotter than an alloy, in other words, they will loosen more than an alloy without breaking. Composites can also be manipulated by a manufacturer more than an alloy because the composite is wound in patterns not extruded from an alloy billet (formed or pressed from a block of alloy). The composite has the potential of being manipulated for better feel as well.

Breaking in a bat is often accomplished through microfractures in the material. There are several articles about the different ways to do this and their effects. The best one I have seen came from a university and showed that the bats broken in with live pitching using real balls is superior in both longevity of the bat and how hot the bat becomes.

Cold weather will have an effect. I have heard stories on both side that it affects alloy's or composites more than the other. Usually a player with a composite bat will tell you all the horror stories of metal bats and vice-versa. Do composites or alloys break more than the other in cold weather or perform worse in that weather? No one knows, it is all oral history from what I can see.

So what to choose? After all that information, the choice probably isn't any easier. You have mentioned some very nice bats. The Exo is very popular here in California. Composites are definitely on the rise however we saw an absolute abundance of the new Easton SV12 in two tournaments here (Travel ball for my oldest son and summer high school ball for my second son). My second son hit 2 bombs this weekend, one with a Catalyst composite and the next with a 2 yr old Stealth. My older son hit with a Stealth composite and did pretty good.

If the grandson's are aware what you are doing for them, ask them what bat they prefer and why. If it is related to balance and feel, they have a good idea of what makes them a better hitter and you can go with that, confidence is a great thing to have at the plate. If it is about the popularity of the bat or stuff like that, any of these will do and they will be fine with it. If they are not aware of your generosity, good for you and I am sure they will be happy with your selection.

It is all about the player, the bat is just the tool. Have fun with the rest of your games. Hopefully whatever you decide on will do great this summer and help them to a great year next spring.

[rcgrounder]

Thanks
They are aware, i grew up in this sport, so i guess i have blessed or tortured my kids with having baseball- softball habits :)

Cold weather will have an effect. I have heard stories on both side that it affects alloy's or composites more than the other. Usually a player with a composite bat will tell you all the horror stories of metal bats and vice-versa. Do composites or alloys break more than the other in cold weather or perform worse in that weather? No one knows, it is all oral history from what I can see.

Your statement here fits us, denting and this year cracks, and i guess if you are under the warranty , fine.

One grandson does not like Stealth at all, he likes the TPX for the stiff handle, "in my day", wood was it so i don't have a clue on feel for these bats.

So i guess we will experiment and see, we will have a down time soon,

One statement made in one of the entries somewhere on the site here said "it would only be good for 150 or so solid line drives", any idea what that meant?
Thanks
:)

[dsore1218]

There are some preconcieved notions on both side of the metal/composite argument. One of them is that composite is only good for 150 line drives. In the end, who knows?

When it was just alloys there was still that same argument for the newer stronger/softer alloys. Let me explain - The whole point of each new alloy is to have the strongest possible alloy so they could thin the barrel and get the best trampoline effect. The stronger the allow, the thinner the middle of the barrel and they could make the ends thicker for those mishits. The argument against the first stealths were that they would shatter because they were too thin and brittle. This supposedly was suppose to happen in the first twenty hits or anytime after 150 hits. Then the Exo would shatter on the composite/alloy handle. And so on. Demarini put numbers on the Voodoo's so the kids would rotate the bat and hopefully keep the hits more even on the bat. This led to every kid that didn't have a Voodoo telling those that did that their bat would dent because Demarini knew it was bad and put the numbers on to make it look like the players fault if they didn't rotate it.

I look at cars and fridges with their warranties. I believe the manufacturers know how long the vast majority of their product will last. IF Easton thought their metal bats would go for 3 years, they would put that warranty on it for the marketing superiority it would give. Every bat has a 365-400 day warranty on it and I suspect the vast majority of bats last at least that long whether they are Composite or an Alloy.

The only company doing anything different is Kelly with their N-Fuego bat. It has a 365 day warranty like the rest but they throw in a one-time exchange during the year for whatever reason - change in size, scratched graphics, whatever.

Hope this helps.

[dsore1218]

Another thought.

We do play in California now but my kids learned the game in Utah. We know about the cold weather.

My kids had gamer bats and all-star bats. The bat they ended with the year before was their gamer bat. They used it until it got warm, usually around all-stars. If one kid on the team had a gamer go bad then he would use someone elses gamer bat, no complaints.

Now, we try out in February in California and it is usually at least in the 60's. My son's still carry gamer bats. They swing what is comfortable for them at the time. Right now they are all over the place trying different bats during the summer. Who knows what they may want in the spring. But they do have some 2-3 yr old bats they keep around because they like them, they are comfortable with them and use them when someone has a dirty curve or a high 80's fastball.

We have seen a lot of bats over the last year on JV, Varsity, Little League (13-14) and Travel ball. One CF-3 went bad inside, sounded like broken glass. An alloy Stealth dented. A Senior League Catalyst lost an end cap and then folded on the next hit. Big surprise a bat would fold when the support piece at the end is gone, hunh? That was it for bat problems. Between the teams I would say there were 30-35 new $300+ bats. So about a 10% fail rate. One was definitely a kid trying for a new bat under warranty (the CF3), he wanted a new black CF3 but Demarini sent a red one.

Good luck, let me know if you have any other questions.

[hardhitter]

From what I've seen it has more to do with the balls then the bat being cold. And tried testing both with no success either way, however my son did say he could feel the differance.

During the winter we went down to the field playing around, I guess 40ish degree. We took 2 buckets one from the basement(finished and warm) and one from the shed(outside and cold) and 2 bats ( both composites bats and from inside). The balls from the house seem to sting less and come off faster, the colder balls hurt to hit as my son would say and seem to be dead. After about an hour or so no broken bat. The bat is still just as good as it was last fall ( Catalyst BB). IMO The colder balls feel heavier

[dsore1218]

I would agree with your experience. The cold balls would be denser as would the cold bat. This type of stuff is up there with the Rockies keeping their balls in a humidor so they act more like sea-level balls.

We have had kids that soak balls in water, then freeze them so they will dent the bat. Can't say they have been successful. The physics of it all would be fascinating.

It is an imperfect world, contrary to my wife's expectations. Some bats will go forever, others will dent easily. I have returned one bat in 32 years (the number of years my 3 sons have played) and it was because I noticed the end cap was messed up when our bat was delivered. The company replaced it and we have not had any problems. My oldest son has hit .350 or above at every level for about 35-40 games per year. The second son has hit at .400 with power (his homers are bombs, first son hits line drive homers) for 60+ games. Third son is sub .200 with lots of bunts and such for about 16 games a year. We have bats that have lost their pop (Connexions in particular), bats that the graphics chipped off but the bat is still going strong after 2+ years (Liquidmetal, Liquidmetal II, Plasma), bats that are out of warranty that are still awesome (Voodoo, Plasma), and bats under warranty (Catalyst, Nike CX2). One was a blem, most are from reps, none show signs of denting or even flat spots. The one constant has been that every coach the kids had when they were younger preached taking care of equipment, showed them how to oil gloves, clean cleats, keep sunglasses in pouches and wrap bats in towels (shock absorbtion and moisture protection, we swing wood in practice). All in all, I feel OK purchasing or obtaining most bats on the market if my sons are good with their balance, swing weight and length/weight ratio.

[rcgrounder]

Thanks

Yesterday i watched the home tallent game here, high school seniors and on up, the visiting team , was a real hitting machine, all wood bats as of last year, and they were hitting shots.

So when i grew up on and only used wood, what in the 32-34 range are the bats to work with and if the hitter as i say is good, will he adapt to an 80.00 wood bat?

I have checked some of the links on the site i have seen here and it comes back to what i have looked around on the net for all different sites, maple or ash will compare to some degree with an st+20 or scandium or composite?

I have to many to buy for unless i stay with like 2 year old Omaha foir 130 or so,
i know what i did with wood but these boys have never swung wood in a game, only my batting cage, with a 31 Brett.

I still have a 32 big handle Jackie Robinson, and a thinner 34 Mantle just for memos.

thanks

[dsore1218]

If you are looking for deals then I would suggest check out www.closeoutbats.com. You can also Google a particular bat with the word blem and/or closeout. You can also get some good deals on Ebay, just make sure they include a dealer receipt for any warranty purposes. There are some great deals out there, you need to just keep looking. There are Easton Quantum's out there for $129. HQ4Sports has the Dynasty for about the same.

As far as wood, there are some great bats out there. Maple and Ash are great. I keep the kids with the same length as their other bats. For batting practice we use cheaper wood bats and keep nicer higher end bats for the tournaments.


Good luck.

[rcgrounder]

Thanks

Been to all those except Ebay, just not an ebayer, thanks.

Apparently you use wood bats because of preference or have to? Age?

Do you prefer Louisville? I don't want to get something that is really different, understand can't compare, apples and oranges.

I saw one site maybe Anaconda, had a "TRUMP" , maple, for 49 or 50, just no Louisville name, according to the rep.?

thanks
:)

we got 3 rained out tonight, jr legion, babe ruth, girls youth fastpitch,
5 grandkids amongst them 4 boys and the all american grandaughter
:)

[dsore1218]

I am not a player, just a dad, a bit of a coach and an involved parent on several teams.

We use wood to practice out of preference. It is not 100% of the time, just a good thing. The boys play in several wood bat tournaments each year.

There are a lot of good bat companies out there for wood. Louisville is one, as is X bat, Rawlings, etc. We just got a Mattingly wood bat to try out the handle. The handle is somewhat triangular and tries to force your knuckles/hands into the correct position. There is a small company in Utah that turns bats for major league players so you can find quality anywhere. I do like the big names because they will stand behind their products.

I do believe that you need to be comfortable with what you swing. The bat is a tool . Whether it is wood, alloy or composite, if it is comfortable it will work.

[rcgrounder]

Thanks
That comment on the Mattingly about the handle, raised some curiosity, it is not totally round? Or is it ome made especialy for knuckles?

I did a google on that Utah bat company just for looking, but so far i haven't found it, there are probably enough for me to choose from.

I did find one in Canada called Zinger, and you can order them on a - basis.

You are right, the basics of the swing and the comfort of the bat, has to be right.

If you are in CA, are you near Oceanside? Someone mentioned Ca, maybe it was not you.

Thanks
I just looked on JUSTBATS.COM, for Mattingly, and it says a V GRIP, designed for that, are they all that way then on this model? never saw that before on a bat.

Looks like a rain out again today, i know Ca could use this.:)

[dsore1218]

106 degrees in the Sacramento valley.

The Mattingly's are all V-Grips, I believe. Kinda their calling card. I like the idea but the Beast broke in the first 15 minutes the rep had it out at practice a few months ago. I like it in a wood practice bat, 2 birds with one stone.

It is hot here. All-stars are in full swing but they did call off the travel ball (18u) game for tonight. These are the times it is good to watch and hopefully you can do it from a running car.

[rcgrounder]

Thanks

I called a site and they referred me to Mattingly.com, shows the grip there real well, i understand they have been out about a year.

I don't know if i have an issue on this, but what ages are you practicing this with?

Did they hit it on the fist to bust it? Or on the end?

I'll have to check the g kids again
Thanks

Really humid here, 90 or so.
:)

[dsore1218]

The wood has been fine. It was their new alloy bat that broke. The rep said that the end cap was messed up. It basically folded. We really won't see him until next February as we just finished high school summer ball.

The boys that see the reps the most are 16-18. The younger kids see them just because they come out when I ask them. Most of the guys run several product lines and are fully into football and basketball. We see some of them just when we saw pitchers that are in the upper 80's or some big monster outfielder during the summer. Most of that is now wrapped up other than some of the major league sponsored teams but they don't play around here.

[rcgrounder]

Thanks

Under the wood bat categories, there are so many barrel variations, what size do mlb's, use 2 5/8 bigger or smaller, what brands mizuno, easton lvile, etc, i assume those are all actual weights no minus?

Trying to narrow it down
thanks
:)

[dsore1218]

Not really sure about MLB bats. Besides the Mattingly some kids are using the Louisville Pro Lite right now. It has a cupped end so it saves a bit of weight and changes the feel a little. The boys like it and the coach has asked that we don't use maple. He reads too many stories about the dangers of maple. Anyway the Pro Lite has done well. We had one start to break but we heard the crack long before it could have splintered and got rid of it. The other thing the kids do to this bat is really build up the knob area with tape. Kinda of a forced choke up on the bat.

I really do like the v-grip of the Mattingly. It is a good training bat and we only play a couple of wood bat tournaments so it works ok for that too.

Other than those 2 bats I would check and see if the Bamboo Bat is allowed in your league. A solid bat that one of the coaches has had for awhile. If it is for practice, great bat.

[rcgrounder]

That is surprising on the maple for kids, I thought the reason all the MLB bats were breaking is 2 fold, cutters on the fists, or end of the bat, and or they have the handles specially tapered thin. so thin, no miniums now, may change.

It is strange the bats would be that much weaker now "when i played", you cracked them, i never saw one fly in pieces.

Any way, the boy on the jr legion team with my grandsons is using a Rawlings big stick,
32 29 i believe, he was 3x4 with it couple nights ago, i did not see game, last night he only grounded to 2nd with it, 1 x at bat.

What ages are the kids with the pro lite?

So thanks for all the responses, will tell you later what i get one, how they do in bp,
spring awaits,. no fall leagues here presently/


thanks

:) raining again,, we have people 20 miles from here with homes full of water yet, you guys are burning up, :confused:

[dsore1218]

18 - 6' 180 and 16 -6'4" 190 for my sons. They play on a high school summer team that is Jr and Sr to be. They also play on a travel ball team that is college freshmen and sophmores to be as well as a couple of high school kids. So all the kids are 16+ that use wood bats in games.

Youngest son plays on a 13 Under team that practices with some wood bats.

The maple is supposedly thicker and denser. It splinters when it goes. We just know how PC some of these people are out here so we tell the kids no maple because that is what is going to happen when the PC folk get going.

By the way, the Utah bat company that I mentioned earlier is Zinger X bats. Their website contacts are all Canadian numbers but the bats are turned in Lindon UT.

The high school is disbanding for the rest of summer. Some of the kids will go on with me for a few more tournaments then call it done. The travel team will play through the end of August then back to school. Football starts on Monday for the rest of July then goes again on the 11th of August for the fall. My 16 yr old is in the mix at QB right now so he doesn't want to have to do too much baseball.

[rcgrounder]

Thanks

Glad i'm not throwing bp to those 2, have enough trouble with the 4 i have.

I have talked to a few different sites/players (?), Marucci's getting good vibes and Sam bats, but haven't decided if i want to crack $120 in a swing yet.

I'll probably setlle on some lesser expensive for bp, see how their swings go.

Are you using -1 -2 -3 on thw wood,? You can pick some that way but others no i see.

Wish we had our old store back so i could go to the bat rack, but that would be L VILE only , years back. I haven't gotten to many positives on L ville yet, personal preference i guess

Eventualy i am going to get a Sam and Marucci though and let the boys see if they can keep it on the field and out of the cracked bat bin?

Thanks again

have you seen the site that has "bi o force" i think it's called, pitching dvds?

[dsore1218]

I am not sure on the weights. They like the feel so that is what they swing. I would imagine they are -2 or so.

I haven't really looked at the BioForce. We do Jaeger bands, long toss and then personal coaching. Oldest boy was mostly a knuckleballer but is strictly an infielder now. Second son has a pitching coach that is a pitching consultant/scout for a MLB team. His HS coach is a part time scout for a different MLB team. I do not know where it will go. The pitching coach played QB in college and works with my son on keeping the arm slot the same for football and baseball. The HS coach also works with him on keeping the front shoulder closed which will help baseball and football. Just trying to keep the stress off the arm and hoping that he can keep enjoying both sports as long as he wants to play them. He can make all the throws including 60+ yards on-target. He threw low 80's last week while working on new pitches which means throwing at 75%. He might hit 90 some day.

[rcgrounder]

Today i happened to hear MLB on Fox, coming down on MAPLE BATS, they have to go they said, Ash to them is just as good, announcers, Mark Grace, may have been one, not sure, said it's gone to far to slow.

In some respect, i have to follow the "ALUMINUM ANTI'S as well", I have seen some bullets, that had a d certificate on them, to keep the "d" word silent.

3 of my g kids take stints on the mound, and so far the bullets have missed, so i in some respect have a desire to slow it down, with wood, maybe maple is not in that category either?

Hope your boys keep healty arms, that bi o force site seemed to deal some with that,

Have you ever taken your sons to a camp where the instructor had Tommy John surgery?

Been there.

Mahes you think twice where you are going, he was in the MLB, BRAVES etc.

Would you buy these?

Easton Pro Stix M267 75.00 2 9/16 barrel, 32--33 length
Wood Baseball Bat - 2 Pack

Thanks,, DH tomorrow:)

[dsore1218]

Just looking at the Eastons, I think they would do just fine. We have purchased bats in that range that have lasted a long time.

I really have not been a good pitchers dad. I had a catcher, a position which he and I loved. Then he got converted to a pitcher. He has the presence and the arm. I don't have the tools or understanding to get him where he can go. I hate relying on someone else to show him the finer points of his position.

We spent some time watching 'A' ball in upstate New York. When the players were killing themselves for a pizza and a coke after the game the boys wondered why. They were shocked at what life was like in the minors then we discussed travel and life in the Majors. We didn't even have to talk injuries or such. I don't think they would make the choice for that life if it ever came to that. I hope not.

As far as aluminum, I agree and so do some of the organizations. ASA is slowed down the bats in 2000 and again in 2004. This may spill over into baseball, it has before. And with Little League and some others cracking down on number of pitches and other issues, they may turn their attention to bats soon.