What is a new bat to you?

[dsore1218]

Just got back from a game. 17 kids on our team, 16 on the other team. 33 kids and the oldest bat I saw was the original EXOGrid. For the sake of argument I will take today's prices even though they just recently fell with the introduction of the new bats. The new bats I will put at full price. Unless I saw there were 2 of any particular bat I only counted one.

There was about $7,600 worth of bats between the two teams. I realize this is not true throughout the country but it is pretty standard here.

So - What is a new bat to you?

I am not going to lead you to the answers I think apply, I just wonder what it is about a new bat?

[Garnerbaseball]

Not sure I fully understand. What is a new bat or what is a new bat to me? A new bat is one that has never been hit with, and/or the new model. A new bat to me, or rather my son, is one that he's not swung, hit with, or is otherwise familiar with.

Sounds like you've got a great set up with your reps. I know we have a few around, but I've never seen one of them even show up with one bat. My son's middle school coach's father is a Demarini rep, and there was talk of having team bats, etc, but to my knowledge, there has not even been one.

His middle school league, which is almost over, requires -5. He also plays travel ball so he ends up switching between -5s and -3s. (He is 13 but quite small for his age). Not all mfg make a -5. COMbat doesn't, Demarini hasn't come out with a new one yet, etc.

Any more news on the Rawlings quality? I was almost set to pull the trigger on a comp lite until I read your post.

[Garnerbaseball]

Sorry, I didn't fully read your question. I think part of the mystique of a new bat is that it's somehow going to make the kid a (much?) better hitter. That if they could just find the right bat, they would overnight become a power hitter, or raise their average X points, etc. Kind of like how some adults buy new golf clubs when they probably really should put the money into lessons.

Also with kids, I think there is a little ego involved. You know, look at me, I've got the latest ABC bat!

[dsore1218]

I guess I just wonder how to get kids past that NEW bat mystique so they will realize it is mostly their ability (or lack thereof) that gets the hits (or doesn't). Kid showed up today with a white Easton Stealth Comp and is still a gapper, much to his surprise.

We are lucky to have as many baseball guys as we do with the reps and the scouts. As to the Comp Lite. My second son loves Rawlings and their longer barrel shape, he still swings an older Liquidmetal Plasma. Ripped a shot off the 380' center field fence tonight with that bat. Anyway, he constantly bugs the guy about the Comp Lite. In the end the rep just does not feel Rawlings has the quality of the Demarini/Louisville's of the world. My experience is just the opposite, we have every Rawlings we have ever bought as my 3 boys have moved from LL majors to Juniors to Seniors to High School. None of the bats have cracked or dented or had to be sent back. We even gave one away to a great kid that was younger and staying on the junior team. He just passed it on this year. It is an original Liquidmetal and you see it sneak out with a kid to the plate every so often when their 'new' bat just is not getting them a hit. They have all been high quality.

The rep has obvious biases as do I. After talking to the rep when he dropped off the new Nike CX2 during pregame today, I would not hesitate to buy a Comp Lite, especially a new one with a 1 year warranty. He really did not like the original Rush but is OK with the Rush Lite. He says alot of stuff he hears is just BS like the original Stealths that were supposedly blowing up in hitters hands.

One thing he did say on the Comp Lite, it is pretty tight out of the wrapper. 100+ good solid hits to loosen it up and get it hot.

We have a Saturday practice and most of those guys show up for the practice. He is supposed to have some new batting gloves for a couple of guys. I will ask him directly about the Comp Lite.

[Garnerbaseball]

Look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks much for the input

[dsore1218]

Sorry, I was on a business trip to Denver yesterday.

We lost Friday night so Saturday was a 4 1/2 hour practice. Brutal. The kids did not fell like talking. We won last night and we talked.

The Rush Comp Lite is the best Rawlings bat yet. 8-9 guys hit with it in the cages, live BP and wiffles. No problems. Rep said that he has not heard anything, knock on wood.

That said, everyone went back to their Catalyst, CF3, etc. We have 2 games and then state and no one wants to be messing with their game. I expect once the season is over a couple of guys will switch before summer ball starts.

One kid just got the Orange Easton as a replacement for his bat under warranty. He is staying with the Nike Fuse until it dies then he will go back to the Easton, maybe. Never saw this Nike bat thing coming. They may be the most loyal kids on the team in terms of bat brands.

Rep said to order the Rush Comp Lite. He thinks it is a step up from before.

[Garnerbaseball]

Thanks dsore. What is your opinion of the new thread re: Rawlings bats denting?

[dsore1218]

That is kinda what the Rep said that I referred to in other posts. He thought Rawlings was mid-grade for quality among the bat makers.

As far as the Comp Lite, he thought it was being outsourced and it is possibly being done by CE Composites (Combat). I have not been able to verify that at all. Nada. He is sure the original Rush Comp was outsourced and it was a disaster and they pulled it from that supplier.

As far as the Senior Gold Rush and Liquidmetal. I have never like the -5 or -8 bats. Any time you are taking a regular size Adult bat and trying to save weight you have to make a compromise. I think Rawlings compromises were more disastrous than other bat makers at the time. We had good luck for the few years we were in that category but we saw more bats go bad on our teams than Little League or High School put together. I think the better bats in that category are the stiff 2 piece bats because you can save weight in the handle and mid-bat with out thinning the metal any more than necessary.

That being said, my son did give his Senior League Rawlings Liquidmetal Plasma to a younger, monetarily-disadvantaged player. We still see it being used now that my third son is in juniors and it is still going strong. There was more than one home run off that bat for my son and he still holds the Senior record for triples in our league with 17 in 22 games. He's fast but he still had to get that ball out there.

Hope it helps. The biggest thing with any bat is to get it replaced immediately if something goes wrong instead of waiting and trying to time it for a new model or something.

[Garnerbaseball]

OK. I'm going to come right out and ask. Which bat? Son is 13, but quite small for his age. Left-handed, no power. Singles hitter only. Middle school requires -5, although I personally wish they'd go ahead and go to a -3. Currently using teammates -5 Demarini. He uses it, but don't think he's in love with it. I know you don't like to give specific recommendations, but I can only promise that he won't see this. I'm paying the bills, so the decision is ultimately mine. Thanks.

[dsore1218]

Break the bank level $250+ - Easton Stealth IMX (orange) - Quality, proven design (not my favorite design), composite, good company. Next would be the Louisville EXO which is alloy/composite but it is a single piece design. $300.

Mid-Range Level $225 or less - Easton BCN17 - Last years model - Composite - $219 at Closeoutbats.com

Less expensive (not cheap)- Louisville TPX Warrior - Still our reps favorite senior league bat because it is a good bat and will last. I saw it on justbats.com for $99.

Please remember that I dislike Senior League bats because I think there are compromises that affect the quality of the bat. At my youngest son's practice tonight a kid blew the end cap off his bat. He just placed it back on the bat and kept hitting. 5 hits later he bent the end of the bat so it looks like a hockey stick. It was a Miken Burn.

Hope it helps. If it was my kid and I was buying a bat using your parameters, it would go:
1) BCN17 (Closeoutbats.com)
2) Warrior
3) Stealth IMX (Orange)/Exogrid

Good luck.

[Garnerbaseball]

You da man, thanks much

[scarlet11]

dsore 1218 I have been reading many of your posts on this forum and value your opinion, I bought my son, who is a high school junior, the bat listed above in early march of this year, the 2008 stealth comp BCN8, stiff flex, not the regular flex, I had researched bats for quite awhile knowing that the bat had good pop but that there were some durability issues, a friend of his had the 2007 model so he had used the bat and liked it but his friends bat had become seperated at the two piece joint, still knowing this my son still wanted the bat, I even called Easton and they told me that that had been a problem in their earlier models but had corrected the seperation problem with their two piece bat, well sure enough after using it for about a month it became loose in the middle just like his friends, anyway he likes the way the bat performs, but we both now question our wisdom in buying this bat, what is your opinion on this bat? also what do you think is better one piece bats or two piece bats ? also do you think composite bats are better, or are you old school and prefer metal bats, my younger son has the 2008 Red EXO 33" 30 oz bat and so far so good with that one, looking forward to your response, as I said I value your opinion, I know you dont seem to like to steer people one way or another but would really like your input on both of these bats

[dsore1218]

I want to respond promptly and properly. I am on a big trip with our Corporate head of IT. I will post tomorrow morning, I promise. I don't know that I have really definitive answers for you but I will explain what makes sense to me. Until tomorrow.

BTW. We had two bye dates this week. Nice piece of scheduling my work trip, hunh? I know the reps have been out to practices with some stuff so I will update you on some of that stuff as well.

[dsore1218]

Am I old school or new school? Not really sure. I talk a lot to the reps and I see where the industry is going which is heavy into composites. The engineers and designers can do so much with composites. They can play with balance points, swing weight, however you want to describe it. They can move material around to achieve this or they can save weight and put an extra belt around the middle like the new Nike.

Right now, the designers and engineers are ahead of the game.

So based on potential, I think you have to go composite.

Now on to single piece or two piece. We have owned a Connexion and a couple of Vexxums, one was a blem. The Easton lasted a year. I felt it lost its pop because the travel team hit a lot of those yellow rubber balls in practice. (We do not use game bats on the rubber balls anymore in travel ball and Varsity does not own rubber balls) It just lost it's pop really quickly. One Vexxum (the blem) is still strong and is a backup, backup bat. The other one just slowly faded away. Today, I know my high school boys will never swing anything other than a single piece bat. My third son is Senior League and swings -8 or heavier. The senior bats, to me, are the most heavily compromised bats. I can see swinging a two piece bat because you can save weight on one piece to help build up the other piece, a better compromise than having to shave weight through the entire bat when the entire bat is not subject to equal forces.

So back to -3 bats. Right now, with what I see on our team and talking to the reps, It is all composites for the kids. Single piece bats are the Catalyst, Nike Aero Fuse, and a Rawlings. The kids are falling over themselves for the demo Fuse CX2 and then the Rush Lite in practice.

2 or 3 pieces bats are the same thing, all composite. The Demarini CF3 is an incredibly popular bat and we have yet to see one go bad. The Eastons are right behind the Demarini's in popularity and the kids really like the feel of the demo Triton from Louisville but think it is ugly.

So, to your bats. The Exo first. The Exo is a workhorse, have not seen many go bad, they get swung a lot and some kids can put some real shots out there with them but they can do that with toothpicks held together with rubber bands, if you know what I mean. The early Eastons did have a few more go bad than one would expect but the ones we saw sounded like broken marbles inside the bat. Right now on Varsity, the big boys, the heart of the lineup, all use Easton Comps and are not having problems. I would not question either purchase, especially if the boys like them. It sounds like the Easton is on it's way to being replaced, hopefully under warranty, and the next one is more solid.

I hope that helps. I will do another quick post on related information so it doesn't get stuck at the end of this one.

[dsore1218]

When you start reading about bat technology, especially composites, it gets complicated really fast. Here is a link to a ton of information.

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats.html (especially Aluminum vs. Composite and Flexible Handles)

You read it and then you fuse it with what you know and see to start to form your opinion on the new stuff. You talk to reps but you realize they want to know what sells best and what is the best hook. They do get you the good stuff so you can form an opinion.

Trampoline effect. The whole point of the alloys and the composites is to give the bat a trampoline effect, to shoot the ball out there. The stronger the material, the thinner you can make the wall and the more trampoline you will have. But a bat gets 'hotter' as you accumulate hits or some people roll them or hit on poles. So if a bat is getting hotter then the material is stretching (doubtful) or you are introducing microscopic cracks or breaks in the material which allows it to bend more and this gives you a hotter bat.

You can control either scenario better with composites which allows you to get a hotter bat than you would with metal. If you look at the paper from the Tokyo conference on breaking in a bat, you need 100+ hits on average and then you will see an increase the speed the ball comes off the bat.

The flexible handle. The flexible handle might change the bat sting. The studies from UMass Lowell say you can throw out the notion that a flex handle adds to your batted ball speed. They also thought that a stiff one-piece bat will have a bat speed of 2.0 mph over a two piece. The sweet spot is also bigger on a one-piece.

In the end, it is all about feel. Composites have caught aluminum. They have more potential, if the makers are left alone, but you are buying for now not for potential. If you don't have just one bat picked out, look around. Decide on one or two piece bats, then decide on metal or composite. Now look at you choices. You have narrowed it down a lot and you can go swing those, at least in the aisle of the store. If you love the bat, that may do more for your hitting than any technological advance.

The biggest thing I ever did for my sons hitting was to go to a well qualified, outsider hitting coach. You or your son might learn a lot or it might confirm what you know. Lessons can really pay off in terms of enjoyment of playing the game and the lessons may gain you a hit or two. It also gives a place to go tune up when that inevitable slump hits.

[dsore1218]

The reps were out. We are one week out from the playoffs, practice was a bit lighter from what the kids said and they hit a ton.

Fuse CX2 stole the show, this will be a big seller. No one disliked the bat. The surprising bat was the Rush Lite. If someone had the CX2 to show a dad or something, then the Rush Lite was being used.

They blew up their second Mattingly Beast of the year. Must be something with how they fuse the handle to the barrel.

Triton - ugly was the first word out. Good bat just did not get the attention of the other bats.

Demarini Black CF3- Kids thought it was just a new paint job, nothing noticeable from the red CF3.

Eastons - Nobody knows what to think of the new stuff. If a kid swings Easton, they used the new ones, no one else really did.

Glove guy was out. Boys fell in love with the $400 Rawlings Primo. Heavily oiled. Rep tried to show them that you needed a heavily oiled glove to deal with ball spin. My oldest showed the guy his A2000 that has been oiled faithfully and was broken in by use and lots of oil. Guy was impressed. All the kids were headed out to buy the Rawling glove conditioner in the thing that looks like a tuna can. There will probably be an oil slick at each position by the end of the week.

Mizuno was out with cleat overruns. Lots of kids got a new pair. Team had switched to Nike Shox so the Mizuno guy is trying to woo us back. Most kids told the coach they just liked Mizuno better, we will see what coach says. Mizuno will have to cut a better deal than in the past.

Remember, I am old and washed up. Some of the stuff these reps bring out looks over thought, other products just ring true. In the end, it is just my opinion and I hope you put in enough time to get your own opinion. You can call me deceived, crazy or even agree with me, at least you will have an opinion. Mine isn't worth anything if you don't have some thoughts that would allow you to agree or disagree.

Last, I love this game. These little details are about as much fun as the little details at the park. I will argue stitch patterns on gloves, synthetic grips on bats, cleat patterns on Mizuno vs Nike or why I think New Balance is the best cleat out there. I hope each of you has as much fun over the years as I have.

[baseballOC]

Dsore, has any of the reps brought up the new black composite voodoo? if they have how is it?

[dsore1218]

Have not seen it. It is all CF3 on our teams if it is Demarini. No rep lately but some are not regular. Oldest son just got picked up for a summer post-high school league team. Team is not exactly local. I hear they are Demarini sponsored. They supposedly start practice the weekend after Championship Monday, around the 26th.

Lot of kids out primpin for the chance to be asked to walk on somewhere. We talked to our son and said to go play for fun before heading off to school or on a church mission. Kind of decompress after playing year round throughout high school. These teams do have the gear so it will be fun to see some of it.

[DTT]

dsore, I picked up the new Triton senior league bat for my son. He has not had a chance to hit it yet (he will tomorrow), but I was wondering if you had any more detailed feedback from the kids that hit it. I've heard it takes a 100 or so hits to break it in.

I don't think it looks bad at all but it sounds like the kids did not like the looks of it. Did that keep them from giving it a good test?

[dsore1218]

I was trying to mock them for not liking the graphics. The other thing is that it is a 3 piece bat and Louisville ran ads against the multipiece bats. The kids (all teenagers) were just all over the guy about them coming out with a 3 piece bat.

The bat. It is a tight bat out of the wrapper. 100 hits is minimal in my opinion. It could loosen up then due to the multiple parts but it is tightly wound.

My oldest boy swung the bat and liked it. He swings Catalyst right now. He is gap hitter and felt good control. He puts it up there with the CF3 for a multipiece and thinks it will outhit the CF3 once it is broken in.

As far as the other guys. No one dis-liked the bat. They really paid a lot of attention to the white Nike, prettiest girl at the ball type of attention.

My opinion is that it will be a very, very good bat. It might be underestimated by others as the graphics are not as cool as some other bats like the white of the Nike, the white or orange of Easton, etc. If you like Louisville or Rawlings, you will swing the bat well.

The biggest item as usual is the feel your son has with the bat. That determines more about how well he will hit, not technology.

[dsore1218]

Sons are out early today. Just told them what I wrote and they had more.

The JV team thought it was a great bat except one kid who has got a major uppercut swing and who gets grief for swinging Miken.

Things they told the rep - Stiff, solid, balanced, no sting, good hits came off areas other than the sweet spot.

JV is no great shakes but the kids have the bats,
Nike Aero Fuse
Rawlings Rush Comp
Louisville Catalyst
Demarini CF3 (2)
Exo
Exo2
4 different Eastons (2 orange, 1 white, 1 blue)

Varsity, they spent time with it and liked the bat. No one built up any wow factor. Wow belonged to Nike. Doesn't worry me as my son's old Vexxum gets used because he hit 5 bombs with it in practice. Kids hit what is popular. Actions speak louder than graphics after all.

[Razzaq]

hi everyone...

Nice to find the great place with lots of information for my baseball bats interest...


cheers
:)

[TallPaul]

I can't believe the prices people are paying for bats!

Want to keep the kid from being too enamored of new bats?

Buy him a used bat. My wife plays on a women's baseball team. We picked up a used Easton Reflex 32" minus 7 Senior League bat for $40 last spring at Play-It-Again Sports. I understand it is about a $100 bat new. It definitely shows wear on the paint, especially the end, but the bat has very good pop and a nice ping sound. I got my best hit ever (only played 5 games--started this year) with that bat.

I suppose if they want composite they will pay more, but still I saw nice used ones at Play-It-Again for under $100.

I can't see why anyone should have to pay more than say $120 new for an aluminum or composite bat or $50 for wood. I just bought a brand new Rawlings Renegade 33/30 big barrel for $35 shipped off of Ebay, it actually had a price tag of $35 on it and was sold throught a major retailer. It looks well constructed, has great ping, and has a wonderful feel swinging.